Group Leaders communicate with staff moderators and escalate potential violations for review, but they dont moderate discussions. One in six women who lose a baby in early pregnancy experiences long-term symptoms of post-traumatic stress, a UK study suggests. I've had all of the anatomy tested, and my uterus is normal/healthy. Goes down with successive weeks, so if you had another scan at 9 weeks and saw a heartbeat, risk would be lower. i hope you are able to find peace with your loss somewhere down the road. 01/01/2020 08:55. The 7 week U/S (where no heartbeat was discovered ) did show a small SCH, which may have been why or its possible my body recognized the baby not continuing to develop. Best of luck for your January FET! Transfered a day 5 BB PGS boy 5/24, first beta was 53 on 6/3 and all betas more than doubled. Need help, advice just feeling lost angry!!! Time is of the essence and we really want to avoid another miscarriage but I am so scared of harming them through this process. I do have symptoms but it may also be from the progesterone Im taking. A Group Leader is a What to Expect community member who has been selected by our staff to help maintain a positive, supportive tone within a group. Also, give yourself grace as you process and cope with this news. We just had a very sad miscarriage at 9 weeks after seeing a heartbeat after an FET. Just make sure you take the tests at the same time and aren't varying your fluid intake too much, and remember that only your healthcare provider can confirm your hCG levels. But for women in their mid to late 30s and early 40s, these studies understate the risk. I had 5 miscarriages (and I have 2 healthy children) before they did a hysteroscopy and found all kinds of things in there that could/should explain my miscarriages. Fetal heart detector, ultrasonic. NTNP 5/2014-9/2014, OPKs and TI 10/2014 - 1/2015. Please specify a reason for deleting this reply from the community. BFP #4 2/18/14. Preimplantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) - now referred to as Preimplantation Genetic Testing (PGT) is a method used to identify genetic and chromosomal abnormalities in embryos.There are many potential applications for PGD / PGT in the field of reproductive medicine. My second transfer is now an 8 month old. Morin L, Cargill YM, Glanc P. Ultrasound evaluation of first trimester complications of pregnancy. D&C 7/12/13. The Meaning of No Fetal Heartbeat on an Early Ultrasound. We were ecstatic but knew the ultimate test would be the first ultrasound. 7.9% at 7 weeks. Can you use a heating pad while pregnant? was 38 at retrieval and almost 40 when baby was born. I think my transfer may be this upcoming Friday or Saturday, so tomorrow I am going to talk to my doctor to see if I am doing anything different bc so far its all the same since my bloodwork came back normal, hi ladies I just wanted to provide you an update, I went in for a early ultrasound at 5w6d and I saw a tiny little embryo 2.5mm with a heartbeat of 103. I tried to pass the hours getting work done, but writing uplifting and fun holiday content seemed pointless when I was hurting so badly. Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this with success on the 2nd attempt, and if so what changes they made, if any, to their protocol. These measurements give your healthcare provider a clearer idea of gestational age than the date of your last menstrual period. The same study suggested that after week 6, the rate of loss drops to 5%. So sorry for your 2 losses, I'm afraid I have no experience with pgs testing but thought I'd ask/suggest: have you had any tests done at all to check for thick/sticky blood, nk cells etc? 2016;38(10):982-988. doi:10.1016/j.jogc.2016.06.001, Preisler J, Kopeika J, Ismail L, et al. Around 80% of pregnancy losses occur during the first trimester, which is between 0 and 13 weeks. This article also covers signs of pregnancy loss. abdominal cramping. Asking because I am currently in same situation. I am going to consult with the Beer Center. When a miscarriage happens without any symptoms, and an ultrasound confirms that the fetus has no heartbeat, it is termed a missed miscarriage (13). 0. e. EmJessnbump. HFEA traffic light system meaning its of no use whatsoever in terms of success rates. Unfortunately, miscarriage is all too common, but my situation is a little bit different. I think we might be trying then as well. I had really strong betas that were tripling, and we saw a strong heartbeat at our first US last Monday. At 6 weeks, youre looking for a gestational sac, a fetal pole, and sometimes a heartbeat. Note that once you confirm, this action cannot be undone. 2013;369(15):1443-51. doi:10.1056/nejmra1302417, Murugan VA, Murphy BO, Dupuis C, Goldstein A, Kim YH. And I could feel him getting cozy in there. hello did you end up having success? aneuploid embryo is one where the number of chromosomes is abnormal, and while these embryos will miscarry, aneuploidy is only one of the many causes for a miscarriage. It gave us a safe place to talk about our baby and she provided us with tips to get through the hardest time of yearholiday gatherings, baby announcements galore, and Christmas cards full of families. I have also seen success stories where there was full term pregnancies after loss. Transvaginal ultrasound is more accurate that abdominal ultrasound in detecting a fetal heartbeat. So sorry to hear about your losses. Was I not meant to be a mom? Seeing your baby's heartbeat on an early pregnancy ultrasound is one of the surest indicators that a pregnancy is proceeding as it should. All levels were great and i followed protocol as instructed. Going the extra lengths and still getting the rug pulled out from under you is just plain awful. At that instant, I was numb. 13dp5dt, Ive got a positive pregnancy test and 2 positive beta. Defining safe criteria to diagnose miscarriage: Prospective observational multicentre study. Our hearts are broken. Pregnancy . My husband and I are just devastated - we did 3 retrievals to find our 1 PGS normal embryo. I then spent the next 2 weeks willing my baby to get cozy. After an ultrasound detects a healthy heartbeat, the chance of pregnancy loss is significantly lower. And luckily, our doctor agreed to do all of the tests we requested. Chemical pregnancy. I have always been told I am healthy with no fertility issues. MNT is the registered trade mark of Healthline Media. How are you doing now? Overall miscarriage rate is somewhere around 12-15%- many of these are chemical pregnancies. These include: Maternal Age Maternal age is one of the biggest risk factors for a miscarriage. Just found out our 4th transfer failed. And doubling, but I know that beta doubling doesnt mean ur little embryo is growing. Some other symptoms to monitor for include: Most pregnancies end with a healthy birth, even if the person has a previous history of or risk factors for a miscarriage. xo, Twins & Multiples: Your Tentative Time Table. Hi ladies..I posted here a couple weeks ago because I had my 4th miscarriage (well 2 chemicals and 1 D&C and 1 natural miscarriage at 7 weeks. so sorry to hear about your loss. I hope you get answers and wishing you good luck with your next transfer. Miscarriage rates by week vary from person to person. Group Owners uphold the core values of the brand by reporting content that violates the community guidelines. IVF #2.2 May 2015 - horrible response to micro lupron flare protocol: 3R, 3M, 3F. If yes, maybe it would be worth adding a blood thinner (lovenox and baby aspirin) prophylactically, and maybe a steroid to prevent an inflammatory issue? Now is the perfect time to start your Baby Registry! Very similar situation here. I did bleed a bit at 6 weeks. A 2012 study looked at the overall chance of pregnancy loss during the first and second trimesters and found it to be between 1122% in weeks 5 through 20. Part of the problem for me is the APS, so they think I'm throwing mini-clots that prevent a baby from implanting. If you have the energy/time/money it might be worth considering an ERA prior to a natural FET just to get the best odds. Im married to Finn & mom to Rory and Ellis. I remember waking up from surgery and touching my stomach, knowing that he was no longer with me. You arent alone! an embryo essentially has two parts - 1 that becomes the baby and 1 that becomes the placenta. On Friday I started bleeding and went to the ER. Also, your chance of miscarriage goes down greatly after youve seen a heartbeat, and we had seen a strong heartbeat three times. I'm pregnant again and had a strong heartbeat at 6w 5d. Today was the day I was going to tell you we were expecting a baby boy. You can also take pregnancy tests daily and watch for the positives to get darker each day. Role of ultrasound in the evaluation of first-trimester pregnancies in the acute setting. Any medical information published on this website is not intended as a substitute for informed medical advice and you should not take any action before consulting with a healthcare professional. This is our2nd miscarriage (the1st was after a fresh cycle of IVF and a long history of trying to conceive naturally without success). What to Expect supports Group Black and its mission to increase greater diversity in media voices and media ownership. I did the reoccurring miscarriage blood panel everything came back normal, I have 1copy of mthfr hetro c677t, which means my body cant absorb folic acid, so I switched to prenatal with folate and folate instead of folic acid. Bleeding is more likely to indicate a miscarriage when it is heavy, gets heavier with time, or occurs with intense cramps. It occurs when the pregnancy ends spontaneously before the 23rd week of pregnancy, for one of a range of reasons. A pregnancy loss can occur before a person even knows that they are pregnant. I just had my genetic consultation prior to moving forward with PGS, and the doctor did touch on this possibility. Finn and I both tried to not get ahead of ourselves because we knew we still had a long road ahead of us. Ultrasound scans. Your emails, DMs, prayers, and good vibes sent our way keep us going. DD born at 31 weeks 6-24-12. I recently did an embryo transfer. The main sign of a miscarriage is vaginal bleeding. In most cases, it is possible to detect a heartbeat on an ultrasound around week 6. Don't rush the grieving process. Receiving quality medical care, having support from ones friends and family, and taking time to heal can help people manage the process. We investigated this as an option but decided against it. You are spending so much time and money that if something can be treated to avoid another miscarriage, why wouldn't you at least look into it? We soon learned that this is known as the vanishing twin syndrome and with IVF the chance of this happening is 1-2%. Thanks! a missed period. Diagnosis. Seeing your baby's heartbeat on an ultrasound is usually a good sign and typically lowers your risk of having a miscarriage. Instead, we stayed cautiously optimistic. I did the reoccurring miscarriage blood work and also we did the DNA micro deletion tests on my self and husband it was all normal. Both were from the same cycle both PGTA tested and came back great. And even better, how excited I was to have a baby the same age as my best friend. Also, your chance of miscarriage goes down greatly after you've seen a heartbeat, and we had seen a strong heartbeat three times. If you feel a message or content violates these standards and would like to request its removal please submit the following information and our moderating team will respond shortly. Outlook. We left our 8-week appointment feeling amazing and we both breathed a huge sigh of relief. also, I would say that it sounds like you have perfectly nice embryos still and im willing to bet that one will definitely work out for you. Yet somehow, even with a PGS tested embryo and a strong heartbeat, we still lost our son. Most miscarriages are due to chromosomal abnormalities, a whopping 70-80%. SCH getting smaller, 3/6 - 8w6d - minor car wreck, SCH larger again, 3/30 - NT scan - lowest risk score possible at 1:10,000 for both Downs Syndrome and Trisomy 18. November 20, 2018. Have you had all that tested? BFP #5 7/27/14. I'm so sorry. But if there still is no heartbeat, you might need to prepare yourself for a miscarriage. Your comments are exactly what I'm worried about - the strain of a thawing and freezing PGS process and the risk of misdiagnosis. I would highly recommend to ipush your dr for the reoccurring miscarriage blood panel or the autoimmune disorder blood work, just because the embryo is implanting doesnt been its working and if ur not on the right protocol it will always fail. All 3 betas had wonderful numbers and we were scheduled for our ultrasound this week, but I had pain/bleeding over the weekend and learned Monday that we had miscarried at 6 weeks. Also, @afreeda29, where did you get your new protocol list? Wishing you all the best for January too! A pregnancy loss is the loss of a fetus that occurs before 20 weeks of gestation. Stillbirth is relatively rare and is getting rarer because very young babies may be able to survive outside the womb thanks to modern technology. We wrote sweet notes in our anniversary journal and thanked God for finally answering our prayers. I woke up one morning and there was blood and small clots on the tp (tmi sorry). If your physician recommends treatment for a miscarriage after one ultrasound (or even after two) and you are not 100% sure that treatment is the right choice, discuss the matter with your doctor and possibly ask for afollow-upultrasound. Although my scan was 7.5 weeks and miscarried at 11. Hi Lauren. Sometimes a lack of a fetal heartbeat does indicate a definite miscarriage. Ultrasounds during pregnancy can be done transvaginally or on your abdomen. While we hadnt officially graduated from our fertility clinic (that happens at 10 weeks), we were excited to meet with our doctor and discuss our entire pregnancy plan. Most pregnant women are referred for their first routine (or booking or dating) ultrasound scan somewhere between 11 and 14 weeks of pregnancy. Little things like uploading a profile picture make the community a better place. First Trimester Miscarriage I saw Dr quenby a few years ago who gave me some very stern facts about PGS, firstly these are private businesses at the end of the day, so if they can squeeze a few extra grand out of you then they will, secondly they explained that PGS actually decreases the chance of success and is rated red on the. Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. 3/19/15. Together were creating our dream home in Chicago, one DIY project at a time. 6 weeks can be a little early for a heartbeat, so we promised ourselves that we wouldnt get upset if they didnt hear one today. Im Casey Finn, the voice behind The DIY Playbook. The educational health content on What To Expect is reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts to be up-to-date and in line with the latest evidence-based medical information and accepted health guidelines, including the medically reviewed What to Expect books by Heidi Murkoff. What to Expect supports Group Black and its mission to increase greater diversity in media voices and media ownership. Still not sure whether I will try a natural FET protocol or try another medicated one. In the same breath, horrifically scared because what are the chances we get lucky with a BFP again, and we have only day 6s left. Learn about, Light bleeding, or spotting, in early pregnancy is common but does not mean a woman is having her period. Ultrasound. just sore breasts. You might also want to buy pads and over the counter pain medication, and see if there's anything on your schedule that you might decide to opt out of during this time. He was just floating there in silence. They seemed to think as we had one live birth that this wasn't a problem we need to look into but as the miscarriages seemed to have been from 'normal' embryos, it is scary not to have more information on why they are happening before trying again. She told me that there is a 15% chance of this happening. Considering a natural cycle for 2nd attempt. My RE doesnt want to do anything differently this time because she said we've done everything we can and I did get pregnant therefore the protocol worked. This was my protocol for this pregnancy. Early pregnancy loss. What Does It Mean If There Is No Yolk Sac in Early Pregnancy? We were on a break from treatments and were excited to pick things back up in the fall. Alternatively, you can always get a second opinion from another OB-GYN. Talk to your healthcare provider to see if there might still be a chance for your baby. For medical professionals, miscarriages are daily occurrences, but for you, they are not. It was completely and utterly heartbreaking. Krissi Danielsson, MD is a doctor of family medicine and an advocate for those who have experienced miscarriage. Research shows that a heartbeat should definitely be detected in embryos larger than 7 millimeters. That's really good that they have you on all of those medications as l. Since the biopsied trophectoderm cells originated from parent cells that also made up the inner cell mass, we infer that the status of these cells is the same. The next few weeks were a blur. xx, Hi hun, how upsetting and cruel ivf is sometimes! However sometimes a mutation occurs in one subset of cells and this creates a mosaic embryo. These can include: vaginal spotting or bleeding. Definition. Thank you, {{form.email}}, for signing up. Not sure if she said this to help how I was feeling as I've had a fair few miscarriages or if there's much truth to it though Add message Share Report Bookmark MC is never easy and when it's a pgs normal embryo it just doesnt seem to make sense. Both PGS normal, AB and BB. -lastsliverofhope, http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/490dd7. Hello all, are any and all of you still active here? The views expressed in community are solely the opinions of participants, and do not reflect those of What to Expect. Other research puts the percentage at around 1015%. No advice but I just wanted to say I'm so sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, the drugs didnt work and I had to have a second surgery to ensure all of the tissue was out. 6 Angels (RPL: 11/09, 02/10, 03/10, 06/13, 09/14, 10/14), Thyroid cancer & Hashimoto's (thyroidectomy 12/13, RAI 03/14, remission since 08/14), Ovulatory dysfunction, Antiphospholipid Syndrome (APS)*RULED OUT with confirmation test results as of 4/6/15!!! A pregnancy loss is not anyones fault. In the same breath, horrifically scared because what are the chances we get lucky with a BFP again, and we have only day 6's left. I say that because I havent seen a lot of people on the boards give the 15% stat for pgs. So during December, we both underwent blood work and more testing to see if there was an underlying issue here. Really looking for success stories of women who have a BFP after a FET PGS normal miscarriage and I cant seem to find many stories at all ?? Thought this was tested out, but apparently that can't be detected by the PGT test. The average chance of miscarriage by the age of the pregnant person is as follows: It is essential to note that these are average figures and do not take any other factors into account. We are very on the fence of whether to transfer two untested vs doing PGS and transferring one. 9 week ultrasound on 7/7 showed no heartbeat and he was measuring at 8w6d, so it was very recent and a MMC. I cannot believe I am sitting here writing this. FET prep: CD 1 6/08 CD 3 Start BCP 6/10, HSG 6/12 Lupron Start 10 iu6/17 End BCP 6/21CD 1 6/23!!! Natural FET 5/26/12 2 blasts Beta 1 207 Beta 2 513 Beta 3 1377 U/S 6/28 Pregnancy not viable d & c scheduled, IVF/ICSI/PESA #2 ER 11/15/12 Nothing to transfer, IVF/ICSI #3 April 2013 MDLF 3dt of 3 embryos, chemical, FET #1 June 25, 2015 6AA and 5AA blast transfer, Beta 8dp5dt 195.2, 10dp5dt 474.8, 12dp5dt 977, 22dp5dt 25,580, TTC #3 since 10/2011 - dx unexplained/weak ovulation, 3 BFN clomid + TI cycles, 5 BFN clomid/gonal f IUIs, 1 mmc IUI, 2/19/2014 IVF #1 Unexpected low E2 (oversuppressed) -> increased to max doses = 3 or 4 follicles, converting to IUI. I am still a bit of a mess. My doctor said that PGS testing only tests the outside layer of cells (which makes the sack/placenta). I'm 4 weeks 6 days. Strong heartbeat seen at 7 weeks. But there are many exceptions to the "heartbeat by seven weeks" rule. Are you currently going through treatment? My beta numbers were multiplying nicely and were over 5000. Instead, they will most likely do a transvaginal ultrasound, where a probe is inserted into your vagina to get better access to your uterus. Find advice, support and good company (and some stuff just for fun). She turned to me and said, Im sorry, but theres no heartbeat.. We don't want to remove cells from the inner cell mass as this will likely destroy the embryo. We chose not to test the remains this time due to the high cost-our consultant thinks this one was probably normal too as the pregnancy made it this far. If the first loss came back as chromosomally normal and you have environmental issues ie endo then you have to ask yourself why are they suggesting it x. I've had every other test under the sun and did PGS on all my embroys (and ALL of them were normal) so I think sometimes it's not the embryos themselves but something else that could be going on. Gestational Sac and Its Meaning in Pregnancy, How a Viable or Nonviable Pregnancy Is Diagnosed, When the Clinical Signs of Pregnancy Occur. All my levels were great, the protocol worked and baby was healthy. We also tested the fetal tissue. Our doctor says he's never lost an embryo in the frozen PGS process and the clinic's success rate is 95 percent but I still worry as I know many doctors wouldn't recommend it. Eventually, though, I stopped bleeding and started to heal. But I wanted to say I'm so sorry for your loss. Try nit to worry brown is good but if u need reassurance ring epau xx. Learn more about, Twins & Multiples: Your Tentative Time Table. Sometimes, fetal heart beat cannot be detected, but that doesn't always mean that your baby's heart isn't beating. PGS and PGD after Miscarriage. If you don't kind me asking, how old are you and did you do a medicated FEt or natural FET? I was thrilled and we had our embryo transfer on October 1st. If you have irregular periods there could be a chance that your pregnancy is not as far along as you think. Did a third and it was successful. using certain drugs, especially stimulant drugs such as cocaine or high amounts of caffeine, having an uncontrolled chronic condition, such as, having a hormonal disorder that makes it difficult for the body to produce hormones to sustain the pregnancy, a sudden reduction in pregnancy symptoms, though symptoms can decrease even without a miscarriage due to fluctuating hormones, a decrease in the fetuss movements in the second trimester, not feeling the fetus move after regularly experiencing movement. J Obstet Gynaecol Can. I miscarried a PGS tested genetically normal embryo in November. I think I'll ask them about them. We soon saw our baby up on the screen with his beautiful little heart beating away. May 2009. Cardiovascular health: Insomnia linked to greater risk of heart attack. Im just so scared that this is going to mean that we will never have our baby because I have never heard of someone miscarrying a PGS tested embryo. We respect everyones right to express their thoughts and opinions as long as they remain respectful of other community members, and meet What to Expects Terms of Use. If you are past seven weeks pregnant, seeing no heartbeat may be a sign of miscarriage. thank you for your response. Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. Today was the day I was going to tell you how we found out about our baby. My RE said it happens but I am not convincedand by way I had the RPL in August and all normal No experience but just wanted to say I am really sorry for your losses. When embryos are eligible for biopsying they are made up of the inner cell mass (becomes fetus) and the trophectoderm (becomes placenta). To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. The last time we touched base about our infertility struggle was when Finn shared his side of the story. Five reasons for false-positive pregnancy tests. I cried tears of joy when the nurse called me and couldnt wait for Finn to come home so I could give him a big hug and celebrate. As the pregnancy ends, symptoms may include those of miscarriage. I had spent most of my recovery diving into research about miscarriage and ordering books to read. I was going to share our amazing news that IVF worked for us and we were finally expecting. Feb 2015 IUI#5Converted to TI (7.5mg Femara) - BFP 3/17/15!!! If you are over 40, it's still around 20%. Ive been blogging since 2013 and there is a lot of content hidden back here! Is the ketogenic diet right for autoimmune conditions? I'm so sorry to hear Did you start bleeding at home before confirming the miscarriage at the clinic? EDD 4/9/15 m/c @ 5w4d. Most miscarriages tend to occur in the first trimester, that is, within the first 13 weeks, and this period accounts for around 80-85 % of all cases (3) (4). This is true even if it has been seven weeks since your last menstrual period. Has anyone had a mis with this testing? The clinic didnt seem too concerned about it. For example, if you did not ovulate exactly two weeks after your menstrual period started, there is a chance you are not really "seven weeks pregnant" in gestational age. BFP #3 5/30/13. We still have 3 normal embryos left, but the thought of trying again right now terrifies me. I was feeling confident about our 9-week ultrasound appointment. Helpful - 0. I am so discouraged because this was a "perfect" embryo that had PGD and PGS testingmy lining was excellent at 11..Progesterone good at 31..just started bleeding and it got heavier and heavier.. Baby's hb was 113.126.132.everything looked perfect and yet another disappointment..I thought that the testing would have caught any chromosonal defects but maybe that is not my problem. D&C 5/17/11. I had a pgs tested embryo transferred in January- everything was going great but no heartbeat at my last RE appt at 10 weeks. However, not all bleeding is due to a pregnancy loss. Why did this happen? It should be getting easier to detect, rather than more difficult. As women age, the odds of miscarrying after seeing a heartbeat on an ultrasound increase. This book was really helpful for me to learn about the various testing available for recurrent miscarriage and to arm myself with information. We are looking into IVF after two miscarriages. Your post will be hidden and deleted by moderators. World Health Organization. Posted 24/5/11. PGD / PGT for miscarriage. Most people who experience a pregnancy loss go on to have healthy pregnancies in the future. ODWU CCRM with Dr. Sch COMPLETE!!!! Hi Katie. Twenty-three pairs of chromosomes have to perfectly match up to create a healthy embryo. I transferred an embryo in June and miscarried around the seven week mark and then transferred another embryo in September and miscarried again. Doubilet P, Benson C, Bourne T, et al. I'm so sorry. Plan was to do final beta a week later on 6/16, but woke up that morning to some bleeding, not spotting. Born April 2010!! But when you go through infertility, you never let yourself get too excited. They had never seen a case of that abnormality so they are thinking it may have developed after implantation. The second miscarriage completely broke my heart as it happened very fast and we saw everything and we had already seen a heartbeat. overly paranoid and delusional that every one is out to get you." Me(27)+ DH(30) Married since Sept.2007BFP #1 DD born 6/1/2009 (no complications)TTC #2 March 2011BFP# 2 after 4 rounds of clomid (blighted ovum)12/11BFP# 3 w help of clomid 2/12 DS born 10/24/2012, Stopped preventing when DS was 6 months old (4/13), really started TTC 10/13Started clomid July 2014, 3 failed rounds of clomid w OB (low pro on CD 21) sent to RE, HSG and blood work all goodround 1: clomid and trigger shot~BFNround 2: clomid, trigger and IUI~BFNround 3: clomid, trigger and IUI +4 booster HCG~NOPE, round 4:clomid, trigger (missed IUI window) NO fricking way BFP. I gave blood and then we headed in for our ultrasound. Everything went perfectly, and looks like our stories are pretty similar I went in for my 7w ultrasound today and there was no heartbeat and baby stopped growing last week. My RE says it was just a fluke. Could this happen again? Hi ladies, Im so sorry for all your losses. 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